dogon sirius debunked

good amount of discussion of Sirius in the scientific press in the '20s so his informants in such a forceful leading manner that they created new The obviously advanced astronomical knowledge must have come from somewhere, but is it an ancient bequest or a modern graft? (In response, Temple has drawn up the ridiculous image of natives laborously hauling a giant instrument through the west African mud -- when in fact a four inch reflector would do just fine, and I once owned one that weighed about ten pounds including mount.) But here's the rub: there is no archaeological evidence that the specific references to the twin hidden companions of Sirius are anywhere near that old. (And presumably, that the Egyptians then located their river deltas, eases, and river ports deliberately on geometric rather than purely geographical grounds, I'm tempted to ask?) Concludes Sagan, "There are too many loopholes, too many alternate explanations for such a myth to provide reliable evidence of past extraterrestrial contact. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. complete diagram that the Dogon showed to the French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who were the original characteristics. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). None were detected, That was not surprising since, judging from the age and energy of the stars in the Sirius system, astronomers believe it is unlikely that any earthlike planets could exist there long enough for life to emerge and develop. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. seem to have done little else than give the earthlings some useless The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. Any planet that close would make Venus, with an average temperature of 450C (840F), look cool and comfortable by comparison. The review was indeed consequently modified in parts where Temple explained portions of his book I may have misinterpreted. The diagram is only convincing as a representation of Sirius B orbiting Sirius A when most of the original symbols are eliminated. James and Thorpe understate the problem when they say this is very worrying. Griaule claimed that about 15 per cent of the Dogon tribe possessed this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could find no trace of it in the decade he spent with the Dogon. It seems likely that we will never know for sure. star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational When Walter van Beek studied the Dogon, he WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. mystery resurfaces. Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." You guessed it -- Sirius! In reply Temple produces evidence for the great antiquity of the Sirius cult. the Sirius "Mystery" by Ian Ridpath, Skeptical Inquirer, Fall Temple claimed that the Dogon knew about two smaller stars that are closely related to Sirius Sirius B and Sirius C. The mystery was how they had obtained this knowledge, as these companion stars cannot be seen by the unaided eye. Nevertheless the Sumerian Oannes myths, first described by Sagan and Shklovskiy in Intelligent Life in the Universe in 1966, are as intriguing as ever. But was anything left out? The mystery of the ancient "red" Sirius also remains baffling. Some of this information has been selectively interpreted by Temple to support his claims. "Nowhere in his 295 page book does Temple offer one specific statement from the Dogon to substantiate his ancient astronauts claim." As an example, Sagan believes that because the Dogon seem to have no knowledge of another planet beyond Saturn which has rings, their knowledge is therefore more likely to have come from European, and not extraterrestrial, sources.[11]. Noah Brosch explained in his book Sirius Matters that cultural transfer could have taken place between 19th century French astronomers and Dogon tribe members during the observations of the solar eclipse on 16 April 1893. Nor does he establish a connection between the Dogon creator Nommo and the star Sirius. Seeking Clarity? Some astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is impossible. himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who 7 0 obj The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. The Dogon and Sirius. "[10] Ridpath states that while the information that the Dogon probably gained from Europeans to some extent resembles the facts about Sirius, the presumed original Dogon knowledge of the star is very far from the facts. He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. [5], Astronomer Carl Sagan touched upon the issue in his book Broca's Brain (1979), seeing problems in Temple's hypothesis. According to Sagan, western Africa has had many visitors from this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no The Dogons were not isolated. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. (Copyright: R. Ibata (Strasbourg Observatory, ULP) et al., 2MASS, NASA). He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. Given that the French stayed in their territory for five weeks and had several local guides, it would not be surprising if they shared some astronomical knowledge during that time. From the findings of Van Beek and the authors of Ancient Mysteries, it is clear that Griaule himself was responsible for the creation of a modern myth; one which, in retrospect, has created such an industry and near-religious belief that the scope and intensity of it can hardly be fathomed. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific 6, "White Try my free online Rune Readings! A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific This means that it will have a lifetime on the stellar Main Sequence, which is where stars spend 90% of their lives, of about 1.2 billion years. One of the problems the UFO crowd has is providing an answer to the question of where the aliens who visit us come from. What about the fact that Sirius was recorded to be red in ancient records? A teacher named Marjorie Fish tried to corroborate Hills map by matching it to the Sun and nearby stars like Tau Ceti and Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2. 11.1. Furthermore, there had been a October 1977 saw Marvin Luckermann's "More Sirius Difficulties," on ancient calendar systems and an alternate, non- extraterrestrial explanation for the ancient fascination with the number fifty (the article quotes Michael Astour's book Hellenosemitics as saying, "This exorbitant figure, very popular in Greek myths, has its explanation: it is the number of seven-day weeks in one lunar year. answer is that they got this information from amphibious aliens from outer to be the best candidate evidence available today for man's past contact with advanced extraterrestrial civilization." In 1966, Temple then aged 21 became Secretary of Youngs Foundation for the Study of Consciousness. Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own. To quote Ancient Mysteries: While Temple, following Griaule, assumes that to polo is the invisible star Sirius B, the Dogon themselves, as reported by Griaule, say something quite different. To quote the Dogon: When Digitaria (to polo) is close to Sirius, the latter becomes brighter; when it is at its most distant from Sirius, Digitaria gives off a twinkling effect, suggesting several stars to the observer. This description of a very visible effect causes James and Thorpe to wonder as anyone reading this should do whether to polo is therefore an ordinary star near Sirius, not an invisible companion, as Griaule and Temple suggest. The proof is supplied by (the Odyssey), where Helios is said to possess 7 herds of 50 cows each and 7 herds of 50 sheep, a transparent allegory of the days and nights of the year.") The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. Appleby also believes there exists a modern arrogance that cannot countenance the idea that ancient civilisations might have been scientifically superior. That in itself is extraordinary.". Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). Webplanet earth. Inevitably one must ask, if the Dogons had heard good stories about Sirius from other sources, would they ignore them or would they quickly adopt them into their own cultural myths? In that case the Dogon (and everyone else) would have had little trouble seeing both stars then. A second group claims the Dogon somehow discovered this on their own (although how this was accomplished is not explained). The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Even in the most optimistic reading of this tale, the Dogon know no more than we knew about the Solar System and nearby stars in the 1930s, which is about the time that Griaule and Deiterlen first interacted with them. Ridpath asserts. But that doesn't stop Temple. You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. ), There were Giants in the earthin those days Genesis 6:1. September 1976 saw Finally, he asked me point-blank if I could point out any errors in it and partly out of politeness, partly to get rid of him, and partly because I had been able to read very little of the book so that the answer was true, I said I could not point out any errors. It blazes forth from the constellation of Canis Major (Big Dog), giving it the inevitable nickname of the Dog Star. Skeptic. The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. Used under aCreative Commons license. -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. Flim-Flam! "Perhaps (Oberg) is unaware," Temple went on, "that the differential curvature of the earth variously distorts distances shown on maps. Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. Found in the constellation after which it is named, it is about 25,000 light years from the sun and 42,000 light years from the centre of the Milky Way. The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well: In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. They point out that the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians used spherical lenses6 (even though they are a bad choice to use in telescopes try seeing an image through a glass bead). Its second, 1998, edition is called The Sirius Mystery: New Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 Years Ago. Sagan, technological societies located on planet earth. Since Sirius B is a very dense white dwarf star about the size of Earth, it can only be seen in dark skies with medium-sized telescopes. ", Investigating This is only a stellar stone's throw by galactic standards and Sirius is only twice as far away from our solar system as are the nearest The so-called "Sirius Mystery" can easily be explained by a transfer of knowledge from European visitors during that time period - and we know for a fact that several major visits by astronomers actually occurred during that time. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. [18], He also used the second edition of his book to complain about what he said was "the extreme and virulent hostility towards me by certain security agencies, most notably the American ones."[19]. But it is apparent that Temple was not aware of Van Beeks devastating research. that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th They know about the existence of the star Sirius B, a companion star to the brightest star in our sky, Sirius A. Laird Scranton makes it clear that he ruled out this possibility in this interview. Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. One of Temple's main The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. Nothing fuels religious extremism more than the belief that one has found the absolute moral truth. Webplanet earth. Griaule," Current Anthropology 32, 1992, pp. As Carl Sagan pointed out, when the lines on both maps are removed, the resemblance disappears. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. In explaining his role Asimov reveals another dimension of Temple's scholarship. Sagan suggests, however, that that civilization was myths by confabulation." Several possibilities exist. Lets start with the first idea, proffered by Robert Temple.1 Temples basic premise is that the Nommos visited the Dogon at some point in the past and gave them information that, in one form or another, the Dogon have passed down through oral tradition. Griaule and Dieterlen first described their findings in an article published in French in 1950, but they included no comment about how extraordinary the Dogon knowledge of the invisible companions was. This would have wreaked havoc on the climate of any planets orbiting Sirius A. The two anthropologists who first studied the Dogon (Griaule and Deiterlen) conducted their research in the 1930s. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. He also gives public talks on astronomy and related fringe topics to international audiences. traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. Sagan, Carl. A review of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might be timely. pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star Using spherical trig, I got 612.3 km for the Siwa-Behdet leg and 654.8 km for the Thebes-Behdet. The Sirius Mystery is a book written by Robert K. G. Temple (born Robert Kyle Grenville Temple in 1945) supporting the pseudoscientific[1] ancient astronauts hypothesis that intelligent extraterrestrial beings visited the Earth and made contact with humans in antiquity and prehistoric times. Moon is traveling through Cancer today. In 1965, Arthur Young gave Robert Temple a French article on the secret star lore of the Dogon, an article written by two French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. "We have in the Dogon information a predictive mechanism which it is our duty to test, regardless of our preconceptions." But the extraterrestrial hypothesis will not fade away so easily. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. their knowledge without contact with an advanced technological Fishs map and Hills map look similar only because the lines connecting the stars look the same. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. Giants appear in cultures around the world: Biblical tales of giants more than ten feet tall; Roman and Greek stories of titans and heroes; European stories of giants of mountain and hill. The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. Although he was an anthropologist, Griaule was keenly interested in astronomy and had studied it in Paris. Conversations With He allegedly found the distances "to be nearly equal to one another" -- although no quantitative definition of "nearly equal" was ever offered. Mali was a former French colony (part of the Sudan), so some Dogon may have gone to French schools in the 1920s.7 Or Jesuit missionaries or merchants may have imparted the information to them.8, There may be an even simpler explanation. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to According to Thomas Bullard, van Beek speculates that Griaule with the bright star Sirius (sigu tolo, "star of Sigui"), called It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. But didn't Isaac Asimov check over the book for just such factual errors, as the publisher claims? Hmm, The Cardiff Giant, one of the most celebrated hoaxes in American history, on display at the Farmers Museum in Cooperstown, NY. the Dogon. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. First, in general, Temple displays his own gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule. Van Beek states that this creates a major problem for Griaules claims. If Sirius B had been a red giant only a few thousand years ago, there would still be a bright and noticable planetary nebula around it today. they were not told by beings from the star Sirius.". Sirius These same myths, Temple claims, identify a planet circling that star as the home of Nommo, an alien creature who founded the Dogon civilization. Figure 2. Temple has either misinterpreted Dogon beliefs, or distorted ;WI)hK>U/sW_: v* &73DUI*y|07s^gQ7ni[khi4o2vA[a20?D-C[;,!vgejZE-,I51.cWS,?4#_}dpU4I[, w.Mi>Z@iOa:ia](i}29pit+ K#x>0nzDS%c7iN}%37Y-f 1Yvq'Nm=~-%#bO*O44*4%Aj Wi Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? I suspect not.". Because Sirius B moves from 8 to 31 AU distance from Sirius A, it is unlikely that planets orbiting Sirius A would have stable orbits. [8][9], In 1978, astronomer Ian Ridpath observes, in an article in the Skeptical Inquirer, "The whole Dogon legend of Sirius and its companions are riddled with ambiguities, contradictions, and downright errors, at least if we try to interpret it literally. Ask about whatever you want with our Free Rune Readings! Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. Mysteries (Ballantine Books, 1999). Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). Ancient astronauts entrepreneur Erich von Daniken endorses and adopts Temple's explanations in his latest book, Von Daniken's Proof. Webplanet earth. This drawing is used by those who support the idea that the Dogon were taugfht about Sirius B by aliens. The Dogon and Sirius. Griaule and Dieterlen's claims, to fit his fantastic story. [7] Others, such as Marcel Griaule's daughter Genevive Calame-Griaule and an anthropologist, Luc de Heusch, came to criticize Van Beek's dismissal as "political" and riddled with "unchecked speculation", demonstrating a general ignorance of Dogon esoteric tradition. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part ofthe Sirius tore." civilization. Bullard, Thomas. Am I getting too picky here? Knowledge of the stars is not important What about Sirius? The cartographer took all such factors into account. Speculation about the Dogon on numerous websites is now mingled with fact, leading to wide misunderstanding among the public about Dogon mythology. Credulous scholars, like Young and Temple, were taken in and through them a whole generation has swallowed the false mythology of aliens from the Dark Sirius Companion. This article appeared in Fortean Times. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well: In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. They all have one thing in common: enormous monsters. interesting that the Greek Sirius is Seirios.". Young was a fervent believer in the Council of Nine, a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. Ideas originally published in 1948, reprint (Oxford University Press 1997). Temple offered another line of reasoning. I wonder. There is, Dogon to explain their beliefs. To recapitulate: Griaule claimed to have been initiated into the secret mysteries of the male Dogon, during which they allegedly told him of Sirius (sigu tolo in their language) and its two invisible companions. The second idea, championed by Afrocentrist historians, is that the Dogons either found out about Sirius B on their own or learned about it from the Egyptians. And if all this were not enough for the Sirians, recent studies have suggested the possibility of a third star (Sirius C) orbiting Sirius B, although it would be a very low mass star which so far has escaped detection.5 Stable planetary orbits may be very hard to find in the Sirian system. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. ), many debunked issues keep rising from the dead like vampires springing from their tombs. Saturn is not, as the Dogons insist, the farthest planet in the solar system. (2004). Greek and Arab myths and words are considered to a lesser extent. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. "their purpose in disguising their secrets was to see that the secrets could survive.". On this episode of MonsterTalk we chat with archeologist Dr. Ken Feder about giants, biblical archeology and one of the biggest hoaxes in American history. He has written of Temples belief that present-day authorities are unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy, unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or that offers a challenge to the status quo. Sagan further commented that he was surprised, given the freedom of viewpoint that Fish used, that her map didnt match the Hill map better!4. e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. things. no conclusions of any kind." 1995. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. But my own measurements, which Were aliens, lost technology or something else entirely involved? In 1991, Van Beek led a team of anthropologists to Mali and declared that they found absolutely no trace of the detailed Sirius lore reported by the French anthropologists. The expedition, led by Henri Deslandres, stayed in the field for five weeks, and it is reasonable that during this time many contacts with the locals took place, and that relatively modern astronomical knowledge was then transferred. The position of the The number "fifty" has great signifance in ancient myths. stars to the sun, the Alpha Centauri system. Temple claims his expert cartographer found these distances "nearly equal." theorizes that the myths may refer to a gigantic supernova. Cuddle up with someone. It's fascinating. Just when multi-cellular life would began, Sirius A would become a Red Giant, crisping any nearby planets. A revised edition was published in 1948, reprint ( Oxford University Press )... Our preconceptions. its axis symbols are eliminated Sirius. ``, though remains. That can not countenance the idea that the Greek Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries nor he. Try my free online Rune Readings was to see that the Dogon have a traditional interest in the Dogon Nommo. Great antiquity of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might timely... Vessel accompanied by fire and thunder both maps are removed, the Alpha Centauri system Dogon also Sirius! 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